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If you need some motivation and inspiration to get started on clearing out your closets, then you need to listen to this episode with Cas Aarsen and Wendell Holland. Cas and Wendell are the hosts of HGTV’s Hot Mess House. On the show, Cas helps homeowners manage the emotional attachments that lead to their homes being cluttered while Wendell finds storage solutions to help them stay organized and tidy.

Cas, the founder of the Clutterbug brand, is a self-proclaimed “recovering super slob turned organizing expert.” She says she was born messy and had to force herself to make changes. But once she did, she was so excited she couldn’t stop talking about it. “I felt a joy I couldn't describe, it’s a passion and I wanted to talk about it with anyone who would listen,” explains Cas. “My husband was like 'please stop talking about organizing,' [and] he suggested that I make a YouTube video instead.” That first video and the ones that followed were so successful, she gained a big social media audience, then she wrote a few books, offered online courses and developed a podcast.

Wendell is a furniture designer who first came into the public eye when won season 36 of Survivor. But his true talent and passion is in furniture design. He most recently appeared on HGTV’s Hometown Takeover helping Ben Napier remodel a barbershop.

The first step Cas takes when helping people declutter is to find out their organizing personality. According to Cas’ Clutterbug approach, everyone fits into one of four organizing styles: 'Bees' like an abundance of visual storage; 'Ladybugs' prefer simple storage systems that are hidden; 'Crickets' like an abundance of storage that is tucked away; and 'Butterflies' flock to easy storage systems that are visually accessible.

In our defend the trend segment of the podcast, Marianne asks Cas and Wendell if they are a fan of color-coordinated organizing for bookshelves, clothes closets and pantries. Cas says if you want to do that and it makes you happy — got for it. But she cautions that even though it can be beautiful, it’s not always sustainable for the long term. Wendell has in the past arranged his bookshelves by color but admits it wasn’t always easy to find things. But he does find a clothes closet arranged by color to be very handy.

Marianne is then joined by Stephanie Sefarian, host of The Sustainable Minimalists podcast. She shares her thoughts on decluttering and organizing through a lens of sustainability and conscious consumerism. “For me, decluttering is to shed light on our wants versus our needs, so we no longer find ourselves on that hamster wheel of buying, then decluttering, then going to the store and buying some more.” Stephanie then provides tips and ways of rethinking the decluttering process so it’s not about what you lose, but what you gain.

Marianne then talks to Tyler Moore, aka the Tidy Dad of TheTidyDad.com. Tyler, his wife and three daughters — all under the age of six — live in a tiny 700-square-foot apartment in New York City. He tells Marianne about how he and his wife have embraced small space living and the health benefits of it. Tyler believes there is a clear connection between good mental health and tidiness. “Living with just enough” — his motto — is less stressful because he doesn’t feel the need to acquire things and he never gets overwhelmed by stuff. Tyler goes on to say, “living in a tiny apartment forces us to be outside and explore and to spend more time together.”